-Scotty Bowman on Pierre McGuire ("Melnick In The Afternoon" TSN 990 Dec 23, 2011)
This one is overdue. I'm not going to step aside over some supposed professional code. I sincerely believe that Pierre McGuire would do a terrific job as an NHL General Manager. And I think it's about bloody time somebody in this town talked to him about the GM post of the Montreal Canadiens.
I believe that Pierre is the best hockey analyst in the business. Almost too good, it turns out, to return to work for an NHL franchise. He revolutionized the way the game is now described on television and more importantly, what hockey fans expect out of a telecast. The energy and passion he possesses is obvious. His knowledge of virtually any player anywhere on the planet, let alone an NHL ice surface, reveals his strong roots as a scout. That knowledge has never wavered from the moment I first met him, sitting in the old balcony at the Montreal Forum during a Canadiens playoff match up that I have since forgotten everything about except for the guy I was sitting next to. Regular members of the hockey beat would moan and groan about being dislodged from their regular press box seats at playoff time when numbers of the working media would swell beyond capacity. I eagerly would give up my seat above center ice and actually request a move to the balcony because I knew that's where a lot of scouts would find their assigned seats. I figured I might learn something. And that's how I discovered Pierre McGuire.
I spent two games in the company of Pierre. I learned more about hockey players in 120 minutes than I had in the previous 12 years. I also realized that after jumping from a "heritage" radio station to a new venture as a drive home host (CIQC Radio) I could use some help during the hockey season. Pierre agreed to come on the air with me, initially on a very occasional basis, while he was an assistant coach with the Hartford Whalers. He did join me the day he became the head coach of the Whalers but we didn't correspond a whole lot again until he lost that job and eventually went to work for the Ottawa Senators as a pro scout and an assistant coach. I remember him showing me around the offices of the new rink in Ottawa and introducing me to a man he later described as his best friend. The guy was Ottawa's assistant GM. His name was Ray Shero.
It got ugly in Ottawa (Pierre Gauthier was around) and Pierre found himself in the hockey hotbed of Baton Rouge, Louisiana as the head coach of the King Fish of the East Coast Hockey League (I vividly remember one off air phone call from Pierre during this time when he told me that Mike Keenan was looking for a centerman - Keenan was coach of the parent St. Louis Blues - and Pierre asked me if Brian Savage was playing the position much with the Canadiens. I said that while I knew that Savage had been drafted as a centermen, he'd been nothing but a winger in Montreal. Didn't handle the puck well enough for a center. Pierre mentioned that Keenan was having issues with Shayne Corson. A short time later the Blues sent Corson and Murray Baron to the Canadiens in exchange for Pierre Turgeon and Rory Fitzpatrick). Pierre started to appear on the air in Montreal on a more regular basis, especially through the NHL playoffs. I explained that although we had no budget I was certain that Ted Blackman at that old heritage station was always listening and would realize Pierre's potential and try to hire him as the radio analyst on Canadiens games. Sure enough, Pierre was back in the NHL, kind of, for the 1997-98 season. By then I was also hosting a television show called "The Habs This Week" and, naturally, used Pierre as our in depth analyst. His star was rising in a hurry. Most of you know that he eventually moved to Toronto to work for TSN full time before coming home again for a few years. But by then, Pierre was also lead analyst at NBC and being pressured to work for them on a full time basis. This past summer he moved to the New York area armed with the assignment to help grow the sport he loves. Only a deep and respectful love of Montreal and especially the Canadiens could bring him back.
As Scotty Bowman told me just before Christmas Pierre was a "hockey guy" long before he hit radio and television. Scotty met Pierre at St. Lawrence University in New York in the 1980's. He eventually brought Pierre to Pittsburgh where McGuire worked as a scout and assistant coach helping the Penguins win two Stanley Cups. He was considered an up and comer, especially after working so closely with the legendary Bowman (living closely as well. They were roommates for a year in Pittsburgh). When the Hartford Whalers hired Pierre as an assistant coach (he also served as assistant GM in Hartford) he was definitely on the fast track. When Pierre replaced Paul Holmgren as coach in November of 1993 he was just 32 years old. To his critics, McGuire "failed" as an NHL head coach. There were certainly well documented issues in Hartford. It didn't work out. You can say he "failed". Most would say that he simply wasn't ready to coach in the NHL at age 32. Who is? But here's something to think about - why was Pierre McGuire so highly thought of that an NHL organization would name him assistant GM and then head coach at the age of 32?
I think Pierre Mcguire should be running an NHL hockey management team. He interviewed for the GM post in Calgary that eventually went to Craig Button. Pierre told the Flames they needed to invest a lot of money to rebuild their infrastructure. The Flames, in the bad old days of the low Canadian dollar, thought otherwise. They're still looking for that second Stanley Cup. Pierre almost became the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yep, I believe it's a matter of record by now. The Leafs wanted to bring Scotty Bowman in as head of hockey operations. Scotty would have named Pierre GM. But the Leafs refused to move John Ferguson Jr. out of the picture. Bowman said no. Ferguson, finally fired by Toronto a year later, now scouts for San Jose. Pierre came very close to getting the Wild GM job in the wonderful hockey market of Minnesota but lost out to Chuck Fletcher. Ironically, if Pierre had agreed to become Ray Shero's assistant in Pittsburgh when his old friend came calling it might have eventually landed him that Minnesota job. The Stars hired Fletcher after he worked under Shero in Pittsburgh.
Pierre McGuire has his detractors. For them, it's not about hockey knowledge. It can't possibly be. It's personal. Or it's based on Pierre's personality. As I said to Pierre when he began in radio, "Be yourself. Say what you believe and say it forcefully. Strong opinions are the lifeblood of talk radio. But as you rise in popularity so will the number of your critics. Stand your ground". Once in a while Pierre can get prickly. He's entitled. He works long hours and literally doesn't stop from the moment he wakes up (with 7 AM appearances on Toronto radio, plus Ottawa and elsewhere before he finally hits the air with us at 5:05) until he shuts it down after the final whistle from the west coast. There are some who believe that Pierre carries a bit of a chip on his shoulder. I don't believe Pierre is envious of anybody - he has a highly successful high profile job that pays him handsomely and, even more importantly, a terrific young family - so he's in a good spot. But I have never met anybody in any pro sport who isn't ultra competitive. And if Pierre does have a chip it's because he sees at least a couple of guys in the NHL, especially the one in his beloved hometown of Montreal, who simply do not know players the way he does. There are some Canadiens fans who believe McGuire hates their team. Because he doesn't work for them. It's actually the complete opposite. I don't know if he'll appreciate me telling this story but here's an example of how much he cares -
June 30, 2009. Having already delivered a well deserved verbal beat down on the radio earlier in the day after the Canadiens announced they had acquired Scott Gomez from the Rangers ("An elite player", said Bob Gainey in the press release. "Did they see him play this season?" asked Pierre. We were both shocked that the Habs had taken the Gomez contract and threw in first round pick Ryan McDonagh in the deal), I was making my way home trying to figure out what Gainey and his head of pro scouting Pierre Gauthier had just done when my cellphone rang. It was Pierre. "Listen, this is bad. Really bad. I'm concerned. They're lost. They have no clue. Bob Gainey is not being well served here. Somebody had to step up and say we can't do this. If you speak to him tell him I'm willing to help. I'm serious. He needs help, badly". I will always have an enormous amount of respect for Bob Gainey. And while I was tempted I never did make that call. I frankly didn't think it was my place to suggest to the then current GM of the Canadiens that he ought to spend less time listening to some of the people he hired ("The man I trust the most").
Almost three years later Scott Gomez, the NHL rookie of the year and two time Stanley Cup winner has been forgotten. Replaced by an actual joke. The Rangers, using the money freed up by moving Gomez to the Habs, signed Marian Gaborik while McDonagh has already developed into a top end NHL defenseman who averages over 25:00 a game. The Rangers are atop the NHL's Eastern Conference. The Canadiens are trying to stay out of the basement.
Barring the biggest last minute turnaround since Harry Truman beat Tom Dewey to win the U.S. Presidency in 1948 the Montreal Canadiens are going to miss the playoffs under a GM who has already fired two coaches, re-signed an injured defenseman who can barely skate, signed two other veteran defensemen who are softer than marshmallows (one armed with a contract than can be termed Gomez-Lite), only realized halfway through the season that most goals scored these days are from "dirty areas", calls everybody "Mr." and generally acts like he's from a lost galaxy. And Pierre McGuire has to watch this crap after warning anybody who would listen that the Habs were headed down this road? It didn't have to be this way.
I'm not saying Pierre McGuire is the only qualified candidate to become the next GM of the Canadiens. But who else is, like Pierre, perfectly bilingual, has strong ties to the city, married to a French Quebecer, understands this market and knows what it takes to win a championship?
Bring him home.
Don't wait for spring. Do it now.
Radek Bonk - This move has Pierre Gauthier written all over it. He's not that good.
Cristobal Huet - I remain highly skeptical. He's never been this good at any level. I don't think he can sustain this high level of play.
Sergei Samsanov - Did they not watch the Stanley Cup final? He's a parameter player.
Guillaume Latendresse - Big mistake if he starts in the NHL as an 18 year old. He needs to develop properly. Don't rush him.
Janne Niinimma - Love the guy. Real good player. Great teammate. But I don't know how much he has left. His best days are way behind him.
Sheldon Souray - One trick pony. There isn't much interest around the league. I don't know who's going to sign him. Don't know how effective he can be in post lockout era.
Alexei Emelin - They've got to get him over here. He can play in the NHL.
Kyle Chipchura - I worry about his skating, especially after his knee injury. Might be able to hang on as a 4th line player.
Alex Tanguay - A 1st round pick? Terrible trade.
Robert Lang - Can still play but don't know how much he has left. A lot of miles in that body.
Roman Hamrlik - A good player but I don't know about that 4th year. He'll help but the term is one year too long.
Georges Laraque - You wanted him, you've got him. Why didn't Pittsburgh want him back?
Chris Higgins - He's got to stop talking about being a 30 goal scorer. He's not.
Mike Cammalleri - I don't know how many other teams would have given him a 5th year.
Brian Gionta - A true gamer. Real solid player and teammate. But again, that 5th year might be a killer. Montreal seems to have to add an extra year to get players to sign.
Jaroslav Spacek - Good player but not much left in the tank. Was a healthy scratch for Buffalo last year. I'd rather have Francois Beauchemin.
Scott Gomez - See Above
Travis Moen - Very useful player if you give him a defined role.
Hal Gill - Very effective defensively. Better than people think, especially on the penalty kill.
Benoit Pouliot - First player I would have traded if I had gotten the job in Minnesota.
Dominic Moore - Why did they give up a second round pick when they could have had this player as a free agent?
Marc Andre Bergeron - Good pick up as a fill in for Markov on power play. Serious issues in his own end.
PK Subban - Will be a star player. Maybe more. But manage expectations.
Jeff Halpern - Real smart player. Valuable role guy. But not the same on his skates since ripping up his knee.
Lars Eller - If he ends up playing on the top two lines then the trade is a good one. But I believe they could have and should have gotten more. Coming off the season and playoffs he had you had to drive up the price for Halak. They didn't do that.
Erik Cole - Very good signing. I worry about that 4th year but he's what they need.
Chris Campoli - A depth defenseman at this stage. People think he's a really good skater but he's knock kneed. Prone to mistakes.
Rene Bourque - I like the trade but it really depends on what they do with the money saved on the Cammalleri contract and what they do with that second round pick.
2011-2012 Montreal Canadiens - If they don't finish in the top 5 on the power play they won't make the playoffs.
(Yes, we save everything)
Nice, Mitch! I don't think anyone is more qualified to write this than you!
ReplyDeleteNice one Mitch - and glad to see you back. I don't know much about McGuire as I'm abroad and I tend to stream RDS because the quality of the feed is usually better. The Habs need to do something major, so why not. But I worry that they won't. Have you ever asked him who he would have coach the team if he was made GM? Because that is where he appears (from your analysis at least) to be strongest. Doing both jobs could impact how effective he would be as a GM and I think that the GM role is the most pressing element that needs addressing.
ReplyDeleteNot really appropriate to ask him who he would hire IF he became GM of Habs. But Pierre always spoke very highly of Kevin Dineen, years before he was hired by Dale Tallon in Florida.
DeleteI seem to recall Pierre Mcguire saying the 2005-2006 Canadiens were set in net with Theodore, Huet and Yann Denis at the 2005 Draft. Oops.
ReplyDeletePierre Mcguire says manage expectations regarding PK Subban. Fine, but he shouldn't say a prospect like Dmitri Orlov, yet to play a game in the National Hockey League during one of his TSN 990 appearances that Orlov is the next Sergei Zubov. Or that NYR prospect Chris Kreider was 'ripping up and shredding' NCAA Hockey, when he had 47 points over 70 games in his first two seasons when the quote was delivered. If he doesn't think PK Subban should be blown up as a bonafide superstar prospect fine, he shouldn't inflate the status of other team prospects to belittle the Canadiens.
Pierre Mcguire in the 2009-10 season calling a Maple Leafs game: Toronto has a solid "Big Four" of Luke Schenn, Mike Komisarek, Tomas Kaberle and Francois Beauchemain. Two have been dealt away, Komisarek is considered one of the worst contracts in the NHL and Luke Schenn is being talked as being the odd man out in Toronto of late. This is also the year he said the Maple Leafs would be the most improved team in the East. They finished 29th overall and handed Tyler Seguin to the Boston Bruins. Somehow the Great Pierre Mcguire did not consider Vesa Toskala as a starting goaltender was a giant red flag.
Max Pacioretty, playing a pre-season game against the Detroit Red Wings in the 2008-2009 year was ready for the NHL according to Pierre Mcguire on TV. If he'd said that in 2010-11, he might have been on to something.
On your program, Mcguire stated Montreal had no elite centre, but cited a natural RW, Patrick Sharp as an example. True he sometimes plays at centre but elite? No.
The master of 'managed expectations' said Drew Doughty had the hockey IQ of Ray Bourque and the body of Denis Potvin more than once during the 2010 Olympics. Yes, that's managing expectations when you compare a player to two of the greatest defencemen in league history. One who has a whopping 3 points on PK Subban, while getting an extra minute of PP time a game this seaon with the benefit of two years of NHL experience on Subban. Doughty also has the advantage of having a teammate like Jack Johnson to carry responsibilities of carrying offence from the back end, Subban is far more a man alone on that front.
If Mcguire can't call things the way they are because he wants to play people-pleaser/armchair GM, that is his right. But I will not trust him to run a hockey club if that is how easily he will compromise the integrity of the vast hockey knowledge he apparently has.
TSN 990 may keep quotes of Mcguire, but some of us also remember when he's dead wrong or making wild speculations and keep those statements in mind.
Don't get me wrong, I like McGuire, but it's easy to make hundreds of statements a year and then have a buddy highlight the positive ones. Could he make a good GM, why not! But Mitch, this is clearly a push for you to have a buddy on the inside. I'd probably do the same, but tone it done a little, you are starting to lose credibility. And for whatever it's worth, I find you know your stuff.
DeleteThe reason I highlighted those particular quotes was to give fans a sense of Pierre's strength as a talent evaluator. I start from the premise that scouting is an inexact skill and that everybody makes mistakes. It's the ability to limit those mistakes that help build championships. The Canadiens find themselves at the bottom of the Eastern Conferene because they have misevaluated too many players.
DeleteAs for "toning it down"? I wrote a blog. This ain't exactly the front page of the New York Times. But if it were, I'd write the exact same thing. It's what I believe. I have no personal stake in Pierre McGuire becoming GM of the Habs. Other than working for a station that might carry radio broadcasts of their games all the way into June.
You convinced me.
ReplyDeleteMitch, Hopefully, Geoff Molson reads this. Is it also possible for Scotty Bowman to be involved with the Habs as well? That would address any concerns about Pierre's experience. It would also be a great way to cap Scotty's career. Thank you for a great blog!
ReplyDeleteVery nicely done, Mitch.
ReplyDeleteI've been a fence-sitter about McGuire. His passion and knowledge is unquestionable. He speaks with confidence and rarely spouts off on things he hasn't looked in to.
My only issues with McGuire are:
1- If he has Bowman in his corner, and knows everything about anybody, why has he been out of a GM position for so long? Can it be solely because he's got a nice spot as a media analyst? Or can it be that teams ultimately feel that he's been "out of it" for too long, or that his plans are too radical?
2- While he has been right more often than he's been wrong, he has been guilty of being a history revisionist on many occasions.
So that's what sticks in my craw, but I fully respect your case.
Couldn't agree with you more and (without getting into details that you surely know) he and Geoff Molson know each other quite well socially. Can't see why they are not making this move. Mr. Clown is driving the Habs straight into the grown and turning this once proud franchise into a laughing stock. Never thought I would miss Rejean Houle! ;)
ReplyDeleteHi Mitch,
ReplyDeleteGreat blog! We totally agree and for that reason a friend of mine and I started a facebook page a few weeks ago : "Fire Pierre Gauthier and hire Pierre McGuire as the Canadiens new GM"
https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/254960127910289/
We were wondering if you wouldn't mind publishing the link on your blog as well as mentioning the facebook page on your radio show. It would certainly help increase the number of supporters of our page.
Thank you
Frank from Montreal
GM's make good trades and bad trades...Pierre Gauthier has yet to make a bad trade IMHO. As far as Gomez...the team was being blown up and no one would sign in Montreal because of the negative media. Mitch...you're part of that problem. McDonagh was drafted from High School...it was worth the risk as no one knew what he would become. Our last HS draft(Fisher) didn't make the NHL. HS is too young to be drafting from. Gauthier is a great GM. I can make a very long list of all the good things he has done, which far outweigh the bad and petty personal knocks against him Mr. Melnick.
ReplyDeleteWow your really lost. "a great GM" I can name 100 bad things but it's simple- how does a great GM put his team 2 points from last place in the east? You never played hockey - don't comment on things you know nothing about. And yes I played semi- pro
DeleteGreat GM - he's clueless on cap and how to build a team
I am not a Habs fan, but this was very interesting. For everything that he gets right though, I still feel like he gets very emotionally involved in the players. I can recall when the Sens traded for Leclaire and he declared him to be 'The best goalie this organization has ever had'. Little things like that where he seems to have created a strong opinion and hyped it up in his own mind.
ReplyDeleteCan't possibly argue with the fact that he knows players though. Seems to know every guy, who his parent are, his hometown and where he played Pee Wee lol
Mitch, totally agree with everything you say and really hope Pierre ends up with the organization...I do think his pedigree warrants giving him a chance to GM in the NHL. Would a 2nd tier position (i.e. asst GM or head scout) for a while, to help prove his mettle, given that he's been on the media side for so long? I am worried about criticism, if he gets hired, that it was media driven just like everything else related to the Habs in Mtl...I think promoting his merits in a less public fashion could be even more successful.
ReplyDeleteAny potential candidate I'm aware of has been media driven. Serge Savard, Vinny Damphousse, Pierre Lacroix, Julien Brisebois, etc. A successful chief executive will do the right thing, whether there is strong public support or not.
DeleteMaybe not the worst possible choice for the Habs next GM but McSplooge certainly ranks right up there with any of the stellar wannabes on l'antichambre. Seriously Mitch, the guy is a media star not GM material.
ReplyDeleteGreat blog. I agree with everything and TSN990 should do their best to keep pushing this until Geoff gets the message. If they hire McGuire, the team will be headed in the right direction in no time. Please let it happen.
ReplyDeleteI would take Pierre in a heartbeat if given the chance. He may not cure all our problems but I think he'd be a pretty good step forward. We need someone who thinks outside of the box working on this team. Some ideas may not work and some may work better than expected, who knows. At least we need to try. Things haven't been working for the last 20 years.
ReplyDeleteIt's time to try something new because if we stick to the same old routine then if we think things are bad now, they'll only get worse.
What a great read. I have never been a fan of PM, but I have never doubted his hockey knowledge and after having read this he would have my vote as GM. Look at his take on most of the idiots that the Habs have picked up in the last little bit. Give the guy a chance, he fits all of the criteria you want in MTL (he's bilingual) what more can you ask for. Get a guy in there that knows hockey and get him in before the deadline so he can make some improvements and ship out the trash Gautier has managed to gather.
ReplyDeleteYou forgot to mention he wouldn't have drafted Carey Price.
ReplyDeleteI think everybody remembers that draft. That was not a misevaluation. Pierre questioned using a 5th overall selection on a goaltender when the Habs, at the time, appeared set in goal with Jose Theodore. He didn't question Carey Price's ability. On draft day Bob Mckenzie mentioned Marc Staal, Gilbert Brule and Anze Kopitar as other possibilities.
DeleteMitch:
ReplyDeleteMcGuire is also my choice simply because in my humble opinion no one else can match him in the position requirements. I see some of the 'haters' are still deluded by what they think they remember, or think they heard or think they saw or for just for personal reasons. in the end if I'm to take some else's opinion, of McGuire, as gospel I choose Scotty Bowman who sits at the top of the mountain on all things hockey. the others (some expressing views here) are but posers without a single nanosecond of experience in pro hockey let alone the NHL.
After the coaches were fired and the team still wasn't doing well, it was a pretty obvious thing that PG and Gainey really screwed things up in MTL. I've wanted PG out for a while now, since JM firing. That was a mistake, it's PG that should have been released. Molson needs to realize and make a bold move in firing PG. I know there are other qualified candidates for the GM job but P. Mcguire has been at the top of my list since day 1. His knowledge and background are enough for me. I really hope Molson doesn't crew this up, fire PG within the next 2 weeks and hold an interview for P. Mcguire. I think he'll impress and get the job, clean house in MTL and build a strong franchise, one that can be respectful to MTL's past. Go habs Go! Please don't screw this crucial time up for the Habs' future; clean this mess!
ReplyDeleteMcGuire also would have drafted Esposito. Gave Canadiens hell for not taking him ahead of McDonagh and Pacioretty.
ReplyDeleteEsposito was a top prospect till he suffered TWO carreer ending injuries. Any person in the world would have chosen him over Pacs and Mcdonaugh. Your argument lacks knowledge and insight and yet you pawn it off as such. Rather amazing that you would fault Mcguire in his interest in Esposito. Guess his crystal ball was broken that day.
DeleteFurther more Gauthier is horrible; no respect for his players or his staff, has zero clout, or respect amongst any other gm's in the league (good example is what the rangers pulled on gomez deal). Look at how he treated his friend and colleague Jacque Martin, or spacek. Better yet taking player out of game....
I've given enough time on your argument, more then probably you took to come to your non sensical conclusions. When Gauthier does get fired watch how many teams come crawling for his expertise. My bet is;Zero! NOUGH SAID!
Another example of Pierre recognizing the market. He believes the Canadiens should do a better job securing prospects from Quebec. He was very supportive of their decision to draft Louis Leblanc.
DeleteMitch your blog is spot on! Some of the comments are saying he would of done this or drafted him instead; those are "if" situations. He knows hockey and is involved with today's hockey (which I find important). He's moved up the ranks from scouting, to pro scout, to assistant coach, assistant GM and head coach. He has paid his dues. Although I do not agree with some of his view points, I love the passion he shows.
ReplyDeleteMitch tell Pierre he has my support and if he needs an assistant-gm (young CA that loves numbers and hockey!) I'm available! Lol.. Joey Fazzari @joeyfazz
Great job Mitch.I have been listening online since the time leading up to the Theodore trade.Pierre has been right far more often than not and as an analyst seems to know more than most "hockey" guys.He speaks too fluidly to be consulting notes during your show,so that tells me the knowledge is all upstairs and in any interview that is worth volumes.I also like the way Pierre didn't duck the issue today on your show. He is the man for the job.
ReplyDeleteDid you also save the fact that McGuire said Price was a horrible pick? Or how about taking McDonagh instead of Angelo Esposito (remember him?)?
ReplyDeleteIf you look through all those comments he made they’re almost all negative, or backhanded compliments. He begrudgingly offers praise of the Montreal Canadiens because he wants the job.
He won’t ever get the job because he doesn’t have managerial experience. He never offers a dispassionate view of the team, and because of that he’s prone to knee-jerk reactions when they aren’t warranted.
The biggest, most obvious example of this, is the Jaroslav Halak trade. It was a goalie rich free agent pool, with few teams looking for a goalie. One of the teams looking was Philadelphia (for obvious reasons), no matter the package that Montreal might have extracted from Philly it wouldn’t have been worth the trouble they would have posed in the Eastern Conference.
That left Gauthier with a small pool of teams in the Western conference looking for goaltending. We’re talking about a conference that left a defending Stanley Cup winning goalie walk away from an arbitration contract. Do you think anyone in Montreal would have allowed a GM to let a Stanley Cup winning goalie walk as a restricted free agent? You’re kidding yourself.
So Gauthier went out and targeted a need (instead of working a ‘market’ that didn’t exist for a player), a big, skilled center. Eller is big, and skilled, and at the half post of the season he’s got 10 goals playing in a checking role, more often than not against top lines from the other team. Eller has made both Moen and Kostitsyn better players: one who had hands of stone for his entire career in Montreal; and the other plagued by inconsistency his entire career. I’d say that’s a good jump forward in development for a second year center (he’s looking to put up comparable numbers to Tomas Plekanec’s second season, but Eller also has the advantage of being a big forward, not as easily pushed around).
He never offers a dispassionate view? Thank goodness he doesn't. He's on radio and tv for a reason.
DeleteI don't think you eliminate potential trading partners because of geography. If the trade improves your team and gives it a better chance at winning the stanley cup who really cares what happens down the road?
Nobody is knocking Lars Eller. But how do you know the Habs couldn't have gotten more? Perhaps a more established NHLer with size and finish and more bite. We know of at least a couple of GM's who would have liked to get in on Halak. And don't assume that just because a team might have appeared set in goal means they wouldn't have made room for Halak.
To be honest I'm not a fan of Pierre, but if he can do a good job as our GM I'll become one. But you make a valid point here. If we could have gotten more for Halak even from a team like New Jersey we should have regardless of if they're in our conference. I'm happy with Eller but if we could have gotten somebody much better then our GM is incompetent.
DeleteWhile I agree with your statement that you don't allow geography to limit your trade partners, I still think that it's a managerial fact that a lot of GMs like to keep prized assets out of their conference.
DeleteI just have to reiterate that McGuire is living in a fantasy land (media land) when he says that he could have generated interest in Halak. The Blackhawks let Niemi walk. A Stanley Cup winning RFA goalie and they let him walk out the door (a Stanley Cup ring is a helluva door prize).
Nevermind the fact that goalie trades are rare to begin with, and when they do happen goalies are almost always valued much lower than position players. We live inside a bubble of hockey fanaticism (and I wouldn't want it any other way), and because Halak had a good year a lot of people thought he was worth way more than he was.
Philadelphia (one of the teams that might have been looking for a goalie when Halak was dealt) is a prime example of why GMs tread lightly with goalies. They go out and sign Bryzgalov to a gargantuan contract and he fell flat. Goalies are weird creatures, some like to play in certain styles (Tim Thomas was born to play with Zdeno Chara), some would rather face more shots than their opponent.
It's hard to predict how certain goalies will do when faced with a new system and environment, even moreso than the average position player. Other GMs have learned the lesson of taking gambles on goalie trades (Look at Toronto's woes, they kept on trying to trade their way into a goalie). They're not just going to fall head over heels for a goalie and give up an established player for one, let alone one who's big, can score, and has 'bite'. How many of those players are in the NHL total? Let alone how many were available, and how many GMs would trade one away for a goalie with a spotty career.
Like I said, McGuire functions in a fantasy land, where he can deride or praise whomever he pleases without any consequence. Targeting an established player for a goalie just does not happen, especially in a salary capped world. In Eller, Gauthier got a cheap, useful asset with a high skill ceiling. It's hard to ask for more.
Mcguire was my choice when Bob Gainey stepped down and still is today. His hockey knowledge whether it's juniors,ncaa,swiss elite,khl,whl,echl or nhl is ridiculous. As a huge fan of Bill James, I hold Mcguire in that high regard. No one is perfect but Pierre comes offely close in player evaluation. A lot of the time he's over emphasizes certain points, but kind of his job as a media guy.
ReplyDeleteMake no mistake though, he is well respected with both players and management, however there seems to be a disconnect when it comes to ownership (some leftover annymosity perhaps from Hartford).
The time is now for Pierre to really just throw his name out there and see if it lands. As a Habs fan I want him here, but as a fan of the NHL, he would truly revolutionize the GM position.
He understands every aspect of this sport and like Bill James it took MLB years to realize his worth.....lets make it happen!
Mr. Melnick very rarely gets infatuated or attached to candidates because he finds it difficult to stay objective. That just solidifies my personal opinion of Mcguire because if he could get Melnick he must be qualified.
Love the blog Mitch!
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more with you. Pierre would be a great choice for the next Habs GM. As you said, there are few hockey people with Pierre's vast knowledge. He would make great player evaluations, completely re-vamp/re-structure the organization from top to bottom and bring us to a higher standard. The Gautman needs to go before he does more damage!!!
I think as importantly as his hockey knowledge, Pierre seems to have an excellent understanding on both the marco and micro level of running an organization. From his plan to invest in scouting, to showing PK video of HOF defencemen, he seems to truly "get it" and although the concept isn't that complicated; scouting well, drafting well, developing draftees, educating call ups on how to be a successful player in montreal and managing payroll by balancing what your current roster can do vs what your call ups can provide; it's all about execution, which some will argue is his biggest knock. How do we know he's able to execute? You look at hockey knowledge, passion and if he has the first two, you have to look at humility. Will he bring in the best or will he bring in the "yes" men? I think Pierre's demonstrated ample humility over the years. While many get annoyed with his "I told you so's", I also know the times he's been wrong he's said "My bad. I thought 'x' and the player really stepped up his game and disproved me. I was wrong." Doing that on national television takes a ton of humility, so he passes my test.
ReplyDeleteHe also understands how passionate this city is about their hockey team. Gauthier's policies with the media and his lack of availability leads me to believe that he takes the fans for granted. It's a mistake. Just before Gillette bought the team, season tix could be had with a phone call. While the habs do have the luxury of a season ticket waiting list, go on craigslist or kijiji these days and find out what habs tix are going for...less than face, any team, any night. The team will be in for a wakeup call in a year or two if things aren't improved.
Pierre's media training is ideal for Mtl. I do believe he'll be more accessible and find a way to make the fans feel even more connected to the team (which at the very least, is very smart business). I remember when he got passed over for the TB GM position and Melnick asked Pierre the first thing he would do as TB GM. Meeting with the season ticket holders was his first order of business. "Genius" I thought...not only make your highest paying fans feel more involved in the process, but secure their dollars which allow you to maximize the freedom to improve your team. The guy gets it on every level.
Finally, the man is a hockey encyclopedia. I was once having a business meeting at Old Orchard Pub on Monkland. After lunch, we grab the bill and Pierre's at the corner of the bar hacking away on his blackberry having a pint. My friend/client who I was having lunch with was a NCAA D2 hockey player for a couple of years in the 1980s and remembered Pierre as an assistant coach for one of the schools he played against. We introduce ourselves and my friend starts "Hi Pierre, my name is Brad and I played for 'x' an..." Pierre blurts in "Brad, of course I remember you! You played with 'a' and 'c' and your head coach was 'd'". Pierre continues to describe Brad as a hockey player to me as if he saw my friend play yesterday. Ridiculous memory.
The Canadiens need to change the way they do things. Pierre has been saying this for years, has laid down the blueprints in his discussions with Mitch and is a passionate hockey man. He gets our city and he loves our city. Scotty Bowman's endorsed him as recently as a few weeks ago. He's a perfect fit. Which is why he'll never be hired here...it makes too much sense.
I wonder what Rejean Houle's up to these days???
Too many people, too many comments.
ReplyDeleteLove him or hate him, Pierre McGuire has an opinion like all of you do. About Price, he said he wouldn't have drafted him "that high." Selective memory is a real bitch!
The Habs biggest issue is scouting and player development, while they are Pierre's strengths. If someone understands the scouting game, he's automatically a prime candidate to be an NHL GM.
Add that to his experience behind the bench, which, other than Gainey, the Canadiens have never had, and we have a winner.
All people make mistakes, whether it's in their decisions or opinions. Should Chicago have fired Tallon based on a single blunder? No, but it was undertstandable. Should McGuire not be an NHL executive because he wants to have a solid yet expensive team of executives? Hell no.
He's the most viable candidate out there, and he's bilingual. Get with it people.
Mitch, Love the post and 100% agree. You got a guy in your backyard, knows your backyard, from your backyard that understands all the facets to being a successful NHL GM AND fits the bilingual/culture component, can identify talent and is brutally honest. Have admired his work for a long time and wondered why he hasn't been hired yet in Montreal. Would LOVE for this to happen. Not sure why he is so disliked by some, maybe the appearance of arrogance or a know it all? He's fantastic and we'd be lucky to get him. Thx for your thoughtful thoughts, Mitch.
ReplyDeleteJohn (Habs fan in DC)
Not a Habs fan but a big PM fan! His knowledge of the game and all of it's players: he's forgotten more players than we ever knew! Bring in PM as GM, Bob Hartley as coach and all will be well! At least for the French Media anyway! The team will still suck but give PM/BH a couple of years to turn around the damage done by Houle/Gainey/Gauthier!
ReplyDeletehttp://articles.courant.com/1994-05-21/features/9405210429_1_pierre-mcguire-whalers-general-manager-paul-holmgren
ReplyDeleteI get that this was 18 years ago, but it's also important to have both sides of an argument.
Hire him as a:
GM: No
Head Coach: No
Scout: In a second.
I alluded to Pierre's stint as coach in Hartford. "Well documented issues".
ReplyDeleteBut again, he was just 32 years old. Not ready to be a head coach in the NHL. Think Michel Therrien didn't have a rough time at the end of his first NHL job here in Montreal? People grow.
The end of that story is amusing. Eddie Johnston and Brian Sutter -two good hockey men - did not exactly distinguish themselves as NHL coaches.
Mitch,
ReplyDeletePierre McGuire knows hockey. He knows a lot about the strengths and weaknesses of every player on the planet. Do I agree with everything he says (he keeps comparing Max Pacioretty to Mike McPhee)? No. Do I respect his opinion? Most of the time, yes.
But here's the question: Is McGuire able to RUN an entire hockey operations department? Scouts, coaches, trainers, PR flacks, PLAYERS...it's not enough to think you know the right answer. A good GM must convince everyone else to follow him. Can McGuire lead all the hockey men who work for the Canadiens? To respect him, challenge him, assist him and support him? Can McGuire handle the pressure? For example, McGuire often says he doesn't believe in giving player more than 5 year contracts. It's great to have an opinion, but happens when a player like Carey Price demands 7 years?
As we've seen countless times, it's a long way from the broadcast booth to the GM chair.
I asked him about Price. He said he'd give himself some wiggle room and go to 6 yrs if that would cement the deal. And Pierre has said numerous times through the years that the last thing he'd want in an organization are a bunch of "yes-men".
DeleteGreat post. Actually beyond great.
ReplyDeleteBut please, change the background or the font colour, the contrast is too low and makes hard to read.
Great article. As a habs fan for the past 45 years, I am dumbfounded by the inaction of Geoff Molson in replacing Pierre Gauthier. Most of us "older" fans clearly see the mistakes that M. Gauthier has made. Yet...he is still the GM. Every week, I listen to Pierre McGuire analyzing the habs play, trades, personnel, etc. He is always right on. The shame is that his comments come after the fact. The damage already done. It would be nice to change this up and get his input before the bad moves. In closing, I find it sad that my 12 year old has no interest in watching the Montreal Canadiens. I never miss a game....I must be mad....
ReplyDeleteI have listen to Pierre over the years and believe that his knowledge of players and their skill would be a great asset in turning the team around. I'm not sure on how he would be able to manage the team under the pressures of being a GM in Montreal. The constant scrutiny would take its toll. It's easy to say what moves you'd make as an analyst, not the same when in the hot seat. Still, I'd give him a try.... can't get any worse.
ReplyDeleteThe number one thing thats been missing from this team goalies aside is player evaluation, and development.
ReplyDeleteIf any guy gets it Pierre McGuire would!
The current scouting has done a good job at drafting NHL players but the misses on impact players is unbelievable especially on guys in their own backyard.
Add to that the number of players who were mishandled or given up on,only to see them thrive elsewhere is a joke.
Pierre is the guy.
I don't know if you know Geoff Molson Mr. Melnick but get you opinion or blog to land on his desk.
I know he know's Pierre but he should at very least give the guy a chance to speak his piece.Give me a guy with a vision, a plan and some damn passion.Don`t give me another lawyer a retread or another puppet.It`s time for a new voice.
Nobody expects the Canadiens to win the cup every year but they should at least be in the conversation.Year in year out they aren't even a consideration and thats a crime.
P.Duyck Mississauga
If anything, he wouldn't be afraid to tear it down and rebuild through the draft. Everyone can see it's necessary.
ReplyDeleteThe current regime is not likely willing to embrace that.
I think they believe they know the game so well, that they actually know nothing about it.
Kaberle. Really? How's that PP coming along? And what will Carolina get for Spacek at the deadline?
Great blog Mitch. What I don't understand is if Scotty Bowman talks so highly of Pierre why wasn't he hired in any capacity when Mr.Bowman was in the Red wings organization and now in the Black hawks organization when Mr.Bowman is a consultant?
ReplyDeleteCircumstance. Pierre was an established TV and radio analyst while Detroit had - and still has - several experienced front office types. As did/does Chicago. Pierre would like to be an NHL GM, not an assistant GM. Otherwise he would have gone to work with Ray Shero in Pittsburgh. A job that was eventually filled by Chuck Fletcher.
DeletePierre does help out people around the league that he respects. I have been in his company many times when he's received phone calls from coaches, assistant coaches, scouts and GM's. Even an owner or two.
Was T.S. Eliot referring to Pierre Gauthier when he wrote, "Between the Idea and the Reality... falls the Shadow".
ReplyDeletePete
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ReplyDeleteI'm back on air today and should be updating this blog post game tonight. In the meantime, thanks again for all the comments. Now a challenge - if you don't think Pierre McGuire should be the next GM of the Canadiens, tell us who should get the job. And more importantly, why.
ReplyDelete